This is such an interesting piece. It has immediately made me want to go and watch both of the series referenced: “I May Destroy You” because it sounds like a fascinating premise (not how I remember it being billed at all when it came out) and “Mr and Mrs Smith”, just to see how I feel about Jane Smith.
I don’t really feel this inter generational rivalry at all, maybe because I have always been careful to maintain positive interactions online and have stayed away from Twitter. I am more interested in the propensity I have to completely despise female characters in film and television in a way I definitely don’t with male characters and in a way that, in my experience, men don’t seem to do at all. It’s something that troubles me and that I find hard to break out of even though I am aware of it.
I do think, and this is pertinent to your essay, that self-righteous indignation is a very unattractive quality and that maybe we need to give people the benefit of the doubt for whatever views they hold (within reason). There is certainly a tendency among a lot of people (I want to say women) a little younger than me to see things very much in terms of black and white which I don’t always find helpful. I would say though that viewing a whole generation as one entity is also part of the problem. People are people. I have friends of all ages both in person and online and those relationships work well because we see each other as a whole rather than a generational package.
Ah thanks Lou. Yep I avoided 'I May Destroy You' for ages because I thought it was going to be traumatic and frightening (dunno if that was your hesitation too). It does have some very troubling bits in it, but overall I was really glad I'd watched it.
Your point about 'propensity to despise female characters' is really important and I want to dig into that at some point because I definitely am guilty of that (and in some non-fictional situations as well - I find myself having all sorts of reasons to not listen to women's voices on podcasts). I know the obvious answer is 'internalised misogyny' but I suspect there's other stuff going on too.
And yep the generations thing is very slippery. I do think pop culture can be divided along generations with as much validity as any of the other ways we slice it up, but it's very broad-brush and becomes nonsensical if you try to push it too far. (There was originally a whole bit in here about all the ways generational analysis doesn't work but the essay was already so long I took it out!)
A fantastic piece Rowan. Thanks. One thing. You say.
‘Popular culture offers behavioural templates and feeds them back into the real world, where impressionable young people pick them up’.
I’m not sure about that. It’s a little close to the discredited ‘monkey see monkey do’ arguments of Mary Whitehouse era and their latter day equivalent, the ‘censor everything I don’t like-because you know-the kids’ attitude beloved of our enlightened classes.
Also, this stuff isn’t corrupting impressionable young minds. Because impressionable young minds aren’t watching it, in general, they’re very much giving it a miss. We should follow their example.
Ha, thank you. Yes that's absolutely true about The Kids not watching much telly - although I'm finding mine are watching more now they're older. I suspect Millennials are probably watching quite a lot of telly now - they're all stuck in in the evenings in their flats with their toddlers/cockapoos/overdrafts...
Maybe I didn't make the point well about how I think the behavioural templates work (I cut that bit down because I was already running so long). It's not so much that someone will watch a specific bit of TV and immediately adopt that behaviour - it's more that I think TV + movies both take from and feed into the zeitgeist, and I do think the younger you are the more plastic you're likely to be, in terms of your propensity to adopt attitudes or modes of behaviour. We are deeply social animals after all.
Of course you’re right about the new parent generation watching more TV. Though not so much what they call ‘linear TV’, old fashioned telly I think. They seem more likely to pick from a menu, rather than just put the tv on and leave it, like in the old days.
I take your point about the zeitgeist, and that’s fair enough. I’ve just always found the argument about ‘impressionable young minds’ a bit of a cover for more widespread censorship. Not that’s what you’re saying of course, I’m just a bit (over)sensitive to it.
No worries! I don't really know what I think on the censorship stuff, honestly. I suspect that I hold two entirely opposing positions and deploy them when it suits me. If I was Magical World Queen I'd wipe out all violent pornography immediately and hang the consequences, but I've never had any urge to stop people watching gunfights. (In films. I can see why it's not a v good idea to watch gunfights IRL...)
I’m pretty much an old fashioned liberal when it comes to this stuff. But I’d agree with you on both counts. Not convinced those two positions, pro gunfight, anti violent pornography are actually contradictory…Thanks again. Looking forward to your next piece.
I watched the first episode of Mr. and Mrs. Smith, and then was done. I found nothing redeeming in a TV show about two people so indifferent to humanity, their own and others, that they would blindly follow the orders of an unseen entity, and that after following those orders by delivering a bomb to a home that blows up a bunch of people, walk away essentially ending the episode without so much as a, "What are we doing?". Maybe I've gotten too old, but that's not funny, challenging or uplifting. If I want dark and sinister with unfathomable inhumanity there's always the evening news.
That’s a very fair point, and honestly I feel a bit chastened - I watch and read so many thrillers that I didn’t even question that bit of it. It felt like the unseen entity was a sort of stand-in for the CIA or the US government, in that they are what the ‘entity’ would have been in a similar series 20 years ago, but presumably wouldn’t be politically welcome in this particular iteration. I suspect we’ll find out more about it in the next season. But you’re right - there was a lot of low-level bitching about their employers’ failures, but the bigger moral questions were mostly hand-waved away. (A couple of the later episodes address it a bit more and I reckon it will be a much bigger theme in the next series.)
This is such an interesting piece. It has immediately made me want to go and watch both of the series referenced: “I May Destroy You” because it sounds like a fascinating premise (not how I remember it being billed at all when it came out) and “Mr and Mrs Smith”, just to see how I feel about Jane Smith.
I don’t really feel this inter generational rivalry at all, maybe because I have always been careful to maintain positive interactions online and have stayed away from Twitter. I am more interested in the propensity I have to completely despise female characters in film and television in a way I definitely don’t with male characters and in a way that, in my experience, men don’t seem to do at all. It’s something that troubles me and that I find hard to break out of even though I am aware of it.
I do think, and this is pertinent to your essay, that self-righteous indignation is a very unattractive quality and that maybe we need to give people the benefit of the doubt for whatever views they hold (within reason). There is certainly a tendency among a lot of people (I want to say women) a little younger than me to see things very much in terms of black and white which I don’t always find helpful. I would say though that viewing a whole generation as one entity is also part of the problem. People are people. I have friends of all ages both in person and online and those relationships work well because we see each other as a whole rather than a generational package.
Ah thanks Lou. Yep I avoided 'I May Destroy You' for ages because I thought it was going to be traumatic and frightening (dunno if that was your hesitation too). It does have some very troubling bits in it, but overall I was really glad I'd watched it.
Your point about 'propensity to despise female characters' is really important and I want to dig into that at some point because I definitely am guilty of that (and in some non-fictional situations as well - I find myself having all sorts of reasons to not listen to women's voices on podcasts). I know the obvious answer is 'internalised misogyny' but I suspect there's other stuff going on too.
And yep the generations thing is very slippery. I do think pop culture can be divided along generations with as much validity as any of the other ways we slice it up, but it's very broad-brush and becomes nonsensical if you try to push it too far. (There was originally a whole bit in here about all the ways generational analysis doesn't work but the essay was already so long I took it out!)
A fantastic piece Rowan. Thanks. One thing. You say.
‘Popular culture offers behavioural templates and feeds them back into the real world, where impressionable young people pick them up’.
I’m not sure about that. It’s a little close to the discredited ‘monkey see monkey do’ arguments of Mary Whitehouse era and their latter day equivalent, the ‘censor everything I don’t like-because you know-the kids’ attitude beloved of our enlightened classes.
Also, this stuff isn’t corrupting impressionable young minds. Because impressionable young minds aren’t watching it, in general, they’re very much giving it a miss. We should follow their example.
As I said though. Loved the article.
Ha, thank you. Yes that's absolutely true about The Kids not watching much telly - although I'm finding mine are watching more now they're older. I suspect Millennials are probably watching quite a lot of telly now - they're all stuck in in the evenings in their flats with their toddlers/cockapoos/overdrafts...
Maybe I didn't make the point well about how I think the behavioural templates work (I cut that bit down because I was already running so long). It's not so much that someone will watch a specific bit of TV and immediately adopt that behaviour - it's more that I think TV + movies both take from and feed into the zeitgeist, and I do think the younger you are the more plastic you're likely to be, in terms of your propensity to adopt attitudes or modes of behaviour. We are deeply social animals after all.
Really glad you liked it though - thank you
Hi Rowan, thanks for coming back to me.
Of course you’re right about the new parent generation watching more TV. Though not so much what they call ‘linear TV’, old fashioned telly I think. They seem more likely to pick from a menu, rather than just put the tv on and leave it, like in the old days.
I take your point about the zeitgeist, and that’s fair enough. I’ve just always found the argument about ‘impressionable young minds’ a bit of a cover for more widespread censorship. Not that’s what you’re saying of course, I’m just a bit (over)sensitive to it.
Thanks again for a great read.
No worries! I don't really know what I think on the censorship stuff, honestly. I suspect that I hold two entirely opposing positions and deploy them when it suits me. If I was Magical World Queen I'd wipe out all violent pornography immediately and hang the consequences, but I've never had any urge to stop people watching gunfights. (In films. I can see why it's not a v good idea to watch gunfights IRL...)
I’m pretty much an old fashioned liberal when it comes to this stuff. But I’d agree with you on both counts. Not convinced those two positions, pro gunfight, anti violent pornography are actually contradictory…Thanks again. Looking forward to your next piece.
So so good Rowan! Worth the annual subscription on its own!
Thank you Jenny!
It’s the cultural revolution in which the young can destroy the old- denounce their parents. Still there is revenge- time.
Heh. I've no idea whether it's true but I keep reading articles about how Gen Z think Millennials are v uncool!
I watched the first episode of Mr. and Mrs. Smith, and then was done. I found nothing redeeming in a TV show about two people so indifferent to humanity, their own and others, that they would blindly follow the orders of an unseen entity, and that after following those orders by delivering a bomb to a home that blows up a bunch of people, walk away essentially ending the episode without so much as a, "What are we doing?". Maybe I've gotten too old, but that's not funny, challenging or uplifting. If I want dark and sinister with unfathomable inhumanity there's always the evening news.
That’s a very fair point, and honestly I feel a bit chastened - I watch and read so many thrillers that I didn’t even question that bit of it. It felt like the unseen entity was a sort of stand-in for the CIA or the US government, in that they are what the ‘entity’ would have been in a similar series 20 years ago, but presumably wouldn’t be politically welcome in this particular iteration. I suspect we’ll find out more about it in the next season. But you’re right - there was a lot of low-level bitching about their employers’ failures, but the bigger moral questions were mostly hand-waved away. (A couple of the later episodes address it a bit more and I reckon it will be a much bigger theme in the next series.)