Hmmm, good point about the means of production being owned by themselves. But I still don't think anarchism quite captures it. The culture, contact, special circumstances have a purpose that is wildly left wing. The organisation and structure is anarchic, the purpose is pure socialism. And yes Feersum Endjinn is still one of my favourites, although uncultural!
Yeah - you're right, I think - which is good news, plenty to cover when we get to 'Player of Games' ;) (it feels like the Affront are played for laughs more than Azad, and the themes feel more nakedly political in that book - and the ending seems to suggest that being brought up under socialism has just made Gurgeh a better person full stop)
In fact, just reading some of what the man himself said about the Culture:
"The theory here is that the property and social relations of long-term space-dwelling (especially over generations) would be of a fundamentally different type compared to the norm on a planet; the mutuality of dependence involved in an environment which is inherently hostile would necessitate an internal social coherence which would contrast with the external casualness typifying the relations between such ships/habitats. Succinctly; socialism within, anarchy without."
Yep, I would go along with that. Now I will have to read The Player of Games (again, again,...) so I'm ready for your piece on that. I love the part where he explains that it is all about the "feel" of the board and the pieces, about intuition etc. so non game theory.
"M" is more and more for Mainstream than imMature by now, and rightly so. You didn't comment on the socialist overtone that M and non-M have in common. There is a delightful story in one of the non-Ms (Espedair street?) where a rich british rock-star buys hangars full of eastern block heavy machinery, just to help the communist economies survive in the face of capitalist competition....
I was waiting for you, Pete! I still have very clear memories of reading Feersum Enjin in your Parisian garret after you pressed it on me fervently. Anyway, you’re right about the socialism. I went back and forth on whether it was luxury space communism or luxury space anarchism and figured that since in the Culture, the means of production had seizing control of *themselves*, anarchy might be more accurate. But yes, the man himself was a glorious old style leftie and couldn’t bear all the capitalists berks who so wilfully misunderstood his sci-fi
You really need to stop making me think I’d like to read books that I have until now utterly discounted! I’ve probably got four or five years of reading matter stacked up as it is!
Hooray! I refuse to apologise ;) Although I would say that if you fancy trying the Culture novels, I wouldn't start with 'Excession'. 'Consider Phlebas' is the first book, but its quite traditional sci-fi. I think I would recommend 'Player of Games' as a starting point: a coherent, readable thriller with some satisfyingly angry politics.
There’s a Japanese word - tsundoku - that loosely translates to gathering more reading materials for later even if you already have loads to read. I’m basically Japanese in this regard.
Great summary, meatbags. But you left out the most important type of characters! (Hint; we performed a heroic and valiant sacrifice in the first chapter). Typical fleshy bits, forgetting about drones.
Does it help if I tell you that there was a whole section about Sisela Ytheleus' heroic escape that was cut for length? It doesn't does it? Apologies to all my drone colleagues (and thankyou).
Hmmm, good point about the means of production being owned by themselves. But I still don't think anarchism quite captures it. The culture, contact, special circumstances have a purpose that is wildly left wing. The organisation and structure is anarchic, the purpose is pure socialism. And yes Feersum Endjinn is still one of my favourites, although uncultural!
Yeah - you're right, I think - which is good news, plenty to cover when we get to 'Player of Games' ;) (it feels like the Affront are played for laughs more than Azad, and the themes feel more nakedly political in that book - and the ending seems to suggest that being brought up under socialism has just made Gurgeh a better person full stop)
In fact, just reading some of what the man himself said about the Culture:
"The theory here is that the property and social relations of long-term space-dwelling (especially over generations) would be of a fundamentally different type compared to the norm on a planet; the mutuality of dependence involved in an environment which is inherently hostile would necessitate an internal social coherence which would contrast with the external casualness typifying the relations between such ships/habitats. Succinctly; socialism within, anarchy without."
Yep, I would go along with that. Now I will have to read The Player of Games (again, again,...) so I'm ready for your piece on that. I love the part where he explains that it is all about the "feel" of the board and the pieces, about intuition etc. so non game theory.
"M" is more and more for Mainstream than imMature by now, and rightly so. You didn't comment on the socialist overtone that M and non-M have in common. There is a delightful story in one of the non-Ms (Espedair street?) where a rich british rock-star buys hangars full of eastern block heavy machinery, just to help the communist economies survive in the face of capitalist competition....
I was waiting for you, Pete! I still have very clear memories of reading Feersum Enjin in your Parisian garret after you pressed it on me fervently. Anyway, you’re right about the socialism. I went back and forth on whether it was luxury space communism or luxury space anarchism and figured that since in the Culture, the means of production had seizing control of *themselves*, anarchy might be more accurate. But yes, the man himself was a glorious old style leftie and couldn’t bear all the capitalists berks who so wilfully misunderstood his sci-fi
You really need to stop making me think I’d like to read books that I have until now utterly discounted! I’ve probably got four or five years of reading matter stacked up as it is!
Hooray! I refuse to apologise ;) Although I would say that if you fancy trying the Culture novels, I wouldn't start with 'Excession'. 'Consider Phlebas' is the first book, but its quite traditional sci-fi. I think I would recommend 'Player of Games' as a starting point: a coherent, readable thriller with some satisfyingly angry politics.
I'd probably recommend The Bridge as a good starting point - it's without the M, but just the most delightfully bizarre story.
Or Transition, which was a fiction novel in the UK but a science fiction novel in the US.
I should re-read all of these!
I’ve read The Bridge. I’ve just discounted his sci-fi up until now.
There’s a Japanese word - tsundoku - that loosely translates to gathering more reading materials for later even if you already have loads to read. I’m basically Japanese in this regard.
Great summary, meatbags. But you left out the most important type of characters! (Hint; we performed a heroic and valiant sacrifice in the first chapter). Typical fleshy bits, forgetting about drones.
Hi Skaffen, big fan of your work, I named my phone after you, to remind myself TO NEVER TRUST IT
Does it help if I tell you that there was a whole section about Sisela Ytheleus' heroic escape that was cut for length? It doesn't does it? Apologies to all my drone colleagues (and thankyou).
"Walking on Glass" was written under Iain Banks (without the M) but it contains science fiction elements.
And of course the first work of science fiction was "Frankenstein" but it is usually overlooked, possibly because it was written by a woman.